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An Exclusive Interview with Joni Mitchell's Ex Husband Larry Klein Print-ready version

'I Am Grateful That I Can Tell Joni How Important A Teacher And Force She Has Always Been In My Life'

The News Hub
June 28, 2016

Rows and flows of angel hair
And ice cream castles in the air
And feather canyons everywhere,
I've looked at clouds that way.

But now they only block the sun,
They rain and they snow on everyone
So many things I would have done,
But clouds got in my way..

Joni Mitchell

Larry Klein and Joni Mitchell's 1982 marriage may have ended in separation, but twenty-two years later, the couple's powerful bond of love and music remains.

"I'm very grateful that I can do whatever I possibly can to help her and let her know how much I love her" says Klein, reflecting on Joni's poor health.

"I am grateful that I can tell her how important a teacher and force she has always been in my life" he adds movingly.

"Every interview I read with you delves into your Joni Mitchell years" I tell Larry, "I have refrained from it in my in previous interviews with you" I add, "but with Joni's devastating brain aneurysm in the news, I want to ask how worried you are".

"She is slowly recovering" replies Larry, "with the brain, nobody can tell you what is going to happen. My experience of her has been seeing her once in a while and she is quite cogent and able to converse as well as having her wonderful sense of humour very much intact".

There was a period "before this terrible thing happened to her", where communication between us broke down and "where I had decided that it was just to painful to talk to her anymore" laments Larry, but "now I'm very grateful that I can get together with her and do whatever I possibly can to help her".

The two met in 1982 when Klein began working as a bassist on Joni Mitchell's Wild Things Run Fast album and it was during the 1980's that the prolific bassist established himself as a record producer.

In 1985 Klein co-produced Mitchell's Dog Eat Dog, followed by Chalk Mark in a Rain Storm, Night Ride Home at and Turbulent Indigo, recorded during the year of their amicable separation. In 2000, the couple reunited to work on Mitchell's Both Sides Now, introducing Vince Mendoza's hauntingly beautiful orchestra arrangements.

Here, Grammy award winner Klein takes time from his famously hectic recording schedule to speak about his latest musical collaborations, 'that Ricky Lee Jones project', despairing at new generations of artists producing "Disposable art", books and how Joni's (2000) Both Sides Now brought Hancock and Shorter to tears.

I continue our conversation by asking Klein about his recent collaboration with soulful Portuguese artist Ana Maura

Q I just listened to Ana Moura on YouTube, what a soulful voice and what beautiful musicianship. Does the transition from one style of music to another come naturally to you?

A I'm an omnivore by nature. I've always been. Probably a by-product of my parents having a great and varied record collection. For me it's a way of educating myself in mediums where my knowledge is rather minimal, or deepening my relationship to an area of music that already was substantial. In the case of Ana Moura, I had discovered fado by chance, then had made a note to myself that I wanted to work with Ana, after making my way through a lot of Amalia Rodriguez' records. To me, Ana was the contemporary voice that excited me. A couple of months later her manager got a hold of me regarding the possibility of working with Ana. Serendipity at work...

Q You are a highly sought after producer and I wonder if artists tend to find you or do you navigate towards the talent you are attracted to?

A Both. Sometimes I will send word that I would love to work with someone and just put it out there, even if I don't know whether there is a hope in hell that the person would ever want to work with me. Other times an artist who I've always been a bit timid about approaching will call me out of the blue and ask if I would be interested in working with them. This is one of the best things about my job; I never know what is going to happen from day to day. I've always wanted to make a record with James Taylor. He asked me about the possibility after a concert a ways back, and I said something to the effect of "tell me where and when and I will be there!". It hasn't happened yet, but I am hoping every day that it does. Everything about his talent excites me. I played with him for a bit years ago, and put that on my bucket list of dream gigs.

Q I heard Prince say he went through quite a few years of not being inspired by anything new he heard, I wonder if you ever experienced such an inspiration drought?

A I go through periods where nothing sounds good to me. Especially my own records that I have done. Nothing excites me musically, everything sounds banal and overworked.

I've come to realize that these are times that I just need to go on input and read, or watch movies. Probably some kind of bio-chemical cyclical thing, or nature's way of telling you to rest a bit and round yourself out. Regarding my playlist, I have some artists who are always enjoyable for me to listen to, and who always inspire me. Bob Dylan (no matter what he is doing), Randy Newman (no matter what it is), The Beatles, early 60's Southern soul records, Miles Davis, Sinatra. I love certain things about many records that are made now, but I don't find too many that have that transcendent and timeless quality to inspire one at any time.

I think that it was the architect John Lautner who said that a good building was one that was perfectly constructed, but a great building is one that spawns ideas for 10 good buildings! I worry about those great albums being made in coming years in the context of what has happened to the music business. There is no financial incentive for people to try to make timeless art now that everything is given away without compensation to those who make it. You have new generations of artists, musicians and composers who's prime goal is to make something that sounds like what is selling fast, not something that will be around for a long time. Disposable art. I can't help myself; I've always been of the other camp, the one that wants to be able to hear a record that I've made in 20 years and think " that still sounds good! Sounds like it could have been made yesterday!"

Q What can you tell me about the Rickie Lee Jones collaboration? how did this come about?

A It never happened. We talked about doing something together. I love her mind, and love what she does. I was very excited about working with her. I got her to sing a Laura Nyro song called "Been On A Train" on an album that I produced for Billy Childs of Laura's music, and she just killed! It's a diamond. But I think that she might have felt that I took advantage of her in some way by getting her to do it. These kinds of album where you have multiple guest vocalists are always Most Favored Nations things where everyone gets paid relatively little, especially these days. Something went wrong, and we never made the record together. Maybe next time if I'm lucky, she'll give the idea another chance.

Q you recently recorded Indra Rios Moore's award winning Heartland after she approached you. She has told me that it has been her dream for many years to record with you.

A When I first heard the music that Indra sent me, I was struck by the lack of self-consciousness in her voice, and the honesty and spaciousness of what she and her group of Danish Musicians had developed together. They were getting at the painterly honesty of jazz without any of the trappings of the genre or displays of virtuosity. I immediately thought of adding Jay Bellerose to the group, as he naturally comes from that place in his playing. The journey from e-mails to a few phone calls, to making a record, was filled with odd serendipitous events and synchronicity. The final product is something different and very rich for those who can take the time to really listen to it.

Q Your wife Luciana Sauza who is one of the most capable vocalists I ever heard, refers to you as "musically curious", do you agree?

A I am rabidly curious. Curious about everything. Sometimes it's painful. Like when I go into bookstores; I can't walk out without buying 8 books. I love a quote that I read of Judd Apatow saying "I think that I have confused buying books with reading them!"

I have stacks of books and music that are 3 feet high on my desk and nightstand. That being said, regarding the making of records, curiosity is the quality that I always look for in the people that I work with, whether it is players, artists, or friends.

I really don't want to work with musicians who are not curious, because that equates to arrogance, and the kind of personality that makes it impossible to find fresh ground between things that have already been explored. If I am working with songs that have been covered previously, I want to do something with the song that enables people to hear the poetry and music in a new way.

I want to be able to take the iconic stability off of the song by re-setting it. To do that I need to be surrounded by musicians and engineers who are so secure that they aren't afraid to fall on their face in front of each other!

Luciana is an amazing musician and singer. She is scary great. The first time that I heard her sing Brazilian music, on my way to the club I thought "I hope that she is good!". After hearing 2 tunes I was utterly intimidated

Q Every musician I talk to, from jazz to heavy metal, melts when talking of Joni Mitchell's breathtaking songwriting.

From I wish I had a River, I could sail away on and fifty fifty fire and ice to I've looked at clouds from both sides now, and a million others..

You are responsible to some of Joni's greatest recordings. A few years on, what are your thoughts on the phenomenal Both sides Now recording?

A I love the Both Sides Now album. I think that we really succeeded in doing what we hoped to do on it. When Wayne Shorter and Herbie Hancock first listened to it, they both cried. That's enough for me to know that we achieved what we set out to do. I love hearing it now. It's very moving to me.

Q What would you love to work on? do you have a dream collaboration?

A Oh, I still have many people that I really want to work with, and many ideas that I haven't acted upon. I would love to make an album with Bob Dylan, Willie Nelson, Barbara Streisand, Bjork, Don Henley, James Taylor, Paul McCartney, Thom Yorke, and many many others.

I come across people and ideas every day that I would love to work with or make come alive. I just hope that things work out so that the economics of creativity in music are such that I can do what I do in the future. I'm doing everything that I can now to get more involved in constructive change in the system, so that the people who make records and art can continue doing so without thinking that it will entail living like a pauper!

Q Israel has just turned 60, happy birthday Israel!

(Klein's wife Luciana had converted to Judaism and their 2006 wedding was officiated by Rabbi Mordecai Finley) A Indeed! I have wanted to make an album with a great Israeli artist for a long time. I still do!

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Added to Library on June 28, 2016. (12850)

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