Did Joni plagarize Camus' "What gives value to travel is Fear" in the song Hejira?
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There is no plagarism, this line doesn't appear in Heijra.
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Here is the Qote, from Camus' Notebooks
What gives value to travel is fear.
It is the fact that, at a certain moment, when we are so far from our own country... we are seized by a vague fear, and the instinctive desire to go back to the protection of old habits. This is the most obvious benefit of travel. At that moment we are feverish but also porous, so that the slightest touch makes us quiver to the depths of our being...
This is why we should not say that we travel for pleasure. There is no pleasure in travelling, and I look upon it as an occasion for spiritual testing... Pleasure takes us away from ourselves in the same way that distraction, as in Pascal's use of the word, takes us away from God. Travel, which is like a greater and graver science, brings us back to ourselves."
- Albert Camus, 1963
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Thank you for supplying the quotation from Camus. I see what you mean now - similar themes. I think that I will read more of Camus, you sparked an interest. I would say that it was more of an influence than plagarism. The Boho Dance on Hissing of Summer Lawns was noted in the liner notes that it was a Thom Wolfism...
(edited: 2009-Apr-16 at 05:51:10)
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This isn't plagarism, it's influence. See also: The Three Great Stimulants, inspired and influenced by Nietzche.
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Try "The Stranger" by Camus...not only is it good reading, it's QUICK reading! I love existentialism.
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Thanks for your suggestion.
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If you can see specific words its plagarism. porous with travel fever (feverish but also porous), quiver to the depths of our being (set up trembling in my bones) its too close
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So sue her! But really, unless Ms. Mitchell specifically denies ever hearing of or reading Camus while at the same time using large chunks of his writing and passing it off as her own, plagiarism it ain't. Good lord, can you imagine if all well-read songwriters were to start listing all their influences on their cd booklets? (Not that it wouldn't make for fascinating reading.)
Anyway, thanks for the impetus to revisit Camus. Night
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Seems she also "plagiarized" Blaise Pascal, who opined that man is both brute and angel and (perhaps?) can choose between these modes. But I doubt that he put this idea as eloquently or as melodically as she did in her song, "Down to You." To my mind this is influence, not plagiarism. Consider these truths: Man is both brute and angel. Travel can induce a feeling of feverish porosity in the sensitive soul. Consider that Truth has a habit of appearing to different artists at different times. Also influence may be conscious or unconscious.
Now if someone had said something really "original" like "Man is part Aardvark and part Orange" and Ms. Mitchell had paraphrased that in one of her songs-- we might see her in court.
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Its the words not the idea. Its porous, fever, trembling and in the same phrase. Think about Camus' writing with out porous, feverish and quiver and Hejira without porous, fever and trembling. Its the words not the ideas.
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Words without ideas is an interesting perspective. Assuming there actually is plagiarism (or infringement) then is it not against Camus, but rather the translator, who selected the English words being discussed? I have only read "L'Etranger" or "The Stranger" (aka "The Outsider") in
English and that was a long time ago. Yet I recall an impression of characterological alienation (apathetic Meursault) I would not associate with Mitchell's (or her narrator's) amorous reboundings in and out of solitude in "Hejira."
"(She) is judged most original who best conceals (her) sources." Off with her head?
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I had a design teacher who advocated ripping off other designers. "Good design is good design," she said. So be it. But it isn't really plagarism if you ask me. Sure she used the same ideas, but she wrote a whole song! I'd call that inspiration.
What if she and Camus are on the same page COINCIDENTALLY?? Now THAT'S weird.
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I have a sneaking suspicion that she plagiarized someone with her song "Love", too, but I don't think many people could have succeeded in delivering the message of those words in such an assertive yet beautiful way. If I were Camus, I'd perhaps be thrilled that someone as creative as Joni had taken my 'vision' and turned it into a form that spoke to people - who would probably have never read his work - in such a vivid way
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I still think she plagarized. There is another line in Hejira: There is the hope and the hopelessness, I've witnessed 30 years.
Joni was born November 7, 1943. Hejira was released in 1976, 33 years.
HOWEVER, Camus was born November 7, 1913, 30 years earlier.
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The song "Love" was not plagarized. She credits the fact that it is from Corthinians in the New Testament. Soulching Towards Bethlehem was acknowledged that it was based on Yates,Job's Sad Song - based on Job in the bible. The Boho Dance - She acknowledges in the credits that it is Tom Wolfism. If - she acknowledges that it was written by Kipling. There is the hope and hopeless, I've witnessed 30 years - do you think that you start thinking that the world is hopeless while you are still in the crib... All musician are influenced by something. I think that she has acknowledged time and time again when she been knowingly influenced by someting. Influenced - Maybe Yes... Plagarized - NO. (edited: 2009-Jul-25 at 06:04:21)
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It looks a lot more to me like inspiration than plagiarism.
Take Faulkner/Shakespeare. In Macbeth, there's a line "... a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
Faulkner wrote a book called The Sound and the Fury, and one of the perspectives it's told from is that of a severely mentally handicapped boy, aka "an idiot." And it's definitely not plagiarism and is considered one of, if not the greatest American novel ever written.
And Joni didn't even use the Camus word-for-word.
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